Say More: At Last She Writes It

No. 49 | November 2025

Dustless Speed

by Cynthia Winward

“Precisely because [certainty] is so fragile, we wrap ourselves around it very tightly. We have our new cliché, our new opinion, our new conclusion, and that settles all the dust. And we don’t like dust; all must be clean, clear, and concluded.”

Richard Rohr
Dancing Standing Still: Healing the World from a Place of Prayer

Five years ago as I hiked in Provo Canyon

I came across this sign in Hope Campground instructing drivers to go very slowly so as not to create too much dust for the campers already settled into their camp sites. Being the new podcaster I was, I snapped this pic and said to my friend, “Well if that doesn’t explain the LDS church, I don’t know what does!” I turned this pic into a social media post where I said this—

Is there a way to talk about the churchy issues that interest me, confuse me, and sadden me, without kicking up dust? I haven’t found a way yet to have the types of conversations that need to happen without making at least a few people uncomfortable….If I move at a dustless pace that never stirs up dirt, well, I’m not sure that’s the place where the growth happens. A little dust is ok, it clears fairly quickly, and what’s left is a new way of seeing the world.

In our book, on page 120 I wrote about a time I met with my Bishop to ask (beg?) that we talk about the hard stuff. I wrote—

“I said I wanted to discuss racism, LGBTQ+ issues, faith crisis, and more in our church lessons. He tried to explain to me that it’s a difficult balance between having ‘softball and hardball’ lessons at church. He didn’t want to make ward members fearful and uncomfortable [ahem…clouds of dust] . I can sympathize that a bishop wants to make church a good experience for all who attend, but I’m not so sure comfort should be our number one focus in our Sunday meetings.”

It’s funny to look back on that experience because I’ve stopped making appointments with male clergy. Mainly because after having conversations and kicking up dust for over a decade, I can look back and see nothing has changed. We never had the tough lessons. Never had a 5th Sunday lesson on faith crisis. Never had a class on the Gospel Topics essays.

In all those years of being a Dust Kicker I can see exactly two changes I helped bring about. First, girls became ushers at stake conferences (before it was in the handbook) and second, we did have an LGBTQ Family Support meeting, but it was quickly canned after six months. The man in charge of it told the stake president “it had run its course.” Nevermind he had zero LGBTQ family, a man knows best. In other words, all my dust kicking resulted in just crumbs.

a dusty walk with my daughter and spouse

If it sounds like I regret those dusty years being so engaged at the ward and stake level, I don’t. It’s never wrong to try. It’s never wrong to advocate. It’s never wrong to let the dudes in charge know that parts of our church are ouchy. I’m glad I was heavily engaged back in those days with the Men In Charge, but I’m pretty burnt out now. Maybe it will be right for me to engage again someday, but for now, I’m pretty silent. One comment on the original Instagram post said this: “I feel this to my bones. I feel like I am always trying to have uncomfortable conversations, and very few are willing to participate.” I get it! It gets lonely being the only one advocating for change.

And as far as I know, nobody else in my ward decided to replace me as the unofficial Dust Kicker. So my ward stays safely settled in their campsites with no feminists, or allies, or feminist allies, driving through the campground creating clouds of dust.

“....in the middle of our despair, in the dust of our disappointment, perhaps—perhaps—we are walking with Jesus in ways we can’t even recognize yet.”

Sarah Bessey
Field Notes for the Wilderness: Practices for an Evolving Faith

It’s interesting to think about the ‘dust’ that Susan and I have kicked up since 2020. Podcast episodes, a book, numerous interviews on other podcasts, multiple interviews with The Salt Lake Tribune, The New York Times, and Religion News Service. Not to mention speaking engagements online and in person. My now-twelve-year-career as an unofficial Dust Kicker has gone in a much different direction than my bishop’s office a decade ago.

In many ways my engagement with the church mirrors the arc of our podcast. We talk less about the organization and more about our individual spiritual lives—because our lives are the real place of change. As a Cheap Seater I’ve influenced official change close to zero percent in my ward, but in my personal life, where I’ve chosen to move at a softly-dusty speed, that change is more like 100%. On our episode with Whitney Call of Studio C this week I said—

“I need to be the arbiter and decision maker in my life, not men who are in unmerited positions of authority.”

I know in many LDS wards the male leaders are kicking up some dust, addressing the needs of the marginalized, but for the most part, like Richard Bushman said, we’re saving the grandmothers in Sanpete county at the expense of their grandkids. Or, in my words, the organization prefers to move at a dustless speed. The good news is that in your life, you decide the dust level. I guess that’s why I stopped most dialogue (for now) with male leaders. I’d rather focus on my personal life. Thinking out loud with Susan and all of you has done more to clear away my own personal dust than just about anything else.

“Our voices are not yet lost to the dust. We can speak. And we must. It is time to say—on behalf of our Nephite sisters and brothers—on behalf of ourselves and our posterity—let us learn to be more wise than they have been.”

Carol Lynn Pearson
Mormon Feminism: Essential Writings

Cynthia Winward

Trail walker and baker of cakes

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