I loved this episode. Thank you so much. I’ve been listening to you both for years, and I feel like I get to take my friends with me while I listen to your podcast on my walks. I’m so grateful for your mentioning of the genocide in Gaza, and wondering why our church hasn’t done anything in this regards. This devastation and our complicity in it, has been a tipping point for me in my faith.
I listened to this one yesterday. It was great. I just wondered if anyone had ever pointed out (surely it's come up before) that is common in neuro divergent relational communication styles to use shared experiences to relate and literally demonstrate our empathy. It's not perceived the same way by the neuro typical understanding so it's assumed that were trying to make it about ourselves. But the opposite is happening. We show which parts we understand and which we don't through our closest related connecting path of empathy. I wish more people understood that.
I was sad to hear Susan has been convinced her way of empathizing was being selfish. Not being able to explain why we do what we do leaves us vulnerable to others imposing their own imagined motives.
Thanks for the podcast and respectfully, I believe you have either deliberately or unknowingly added more confusion, not less confusion to the topic of empathy.
I'll break my comments down to section for ease.
Empathy vs Sympathy: You broached the subject but never really articulated the differences between empathy and sympathy. Having the human experience doesn't qualify you to "feel" empathy for everyone. A few years ago, I attended the Transplant games of America. As the name suggests this is an Olympic style competition for those who have either donated organs or have received organs. It was very clear from the moment I started watching the competition those who received transplants had a special bond with each other. An unspoken bond with each other that was in the ease of their conversations. They all knew the difficult transplant path and understood the boulders and waterfalls along the way. In my view this is the essence empathy. Those who watched or conversed with the athletes could visualize the road but acknowledged they didn't know the path. Listening to your podcast I don't think this was communicated very well. There is a reason why English and may other languages use different words to communicate what is means to understand.
Empathy is a Sin: You started the podcast referencing the sermon by Rev. Mariann Budde. Like the article you referenced to tee up this topic you conflated mercy for empathy. Rev. Budde was asking Trump to extend mercy, not empathy. Mercy has to do with forgiveness, not understanding, and they are not mutually exclusive. In addition, the title of book you didn't want to reference was deliberate and was not suggesting empathy was a sin, rather, like most author's, they select titles to catch the reader's attention, it worked. If you bothered to actually read more about what he was suggesting, you may have found yourself in cognitive dissonance. The premise of his argument is related to untethered empathy being used as a manipulative tool at the expense of suffering. For example, you mention illegal immigration and your desire to live and let live regardless of the laws. There are two problems with this form of empathy, sympathy. First, where is the line when it comes to what laws should be enforce and those that shouldn't? Are you okay if we stop enforcing murder, rape, and domestic violence? If no, then where is the line? Rather than saying is the law more important than the people? You should direct your energy to your local representatives. Which brings me to my second point. You have deep sympathy for those who came to the US illegally. While I appreciate this viewpoint, you have to ask yourself what is the direct ion of this sympathy? You said stories move people; facts don't. In that spirit here is a story for you. Ava Moore was admitted to the Air Force academy. She wanted to join the small group of women who have made the rank of General. This was her life goal. This year she returned to her home state after school was over to enjoy a few weeks of relaxation. While enjoying herself at the lake, she was hit by a jet ski and killed. Those responsible for her killing quickly left the scene of the accident and in doing so caused even more damage to other bystanders. The responsible parties were illegal aliens from Venezuela. Prior to the accident, both of these individual's seemed to be enjoying their time in the US. Other than breaking the US immigration laws, they didn't have any legal issues. These illegal immigrants are the very same people you seem to garner a lot of your heart. Ava wanted to serve and protect her Country, but her Country didn't protect her. So, I ask you, why doesn't your sympathy extend to Ava? You action, on the surface seem to align with the very definition of untethered empathy. Your sympathy seems very one sided. But perhaps I misunderstood you? I also notice you did the same thing with the war in Gaza. Your heart breaks for the children, but what about the thousands of Jews tortured, raped and killed by Hamas? Hamas is responsible for both atrocities, but you only extend sympathy one way. This is untethered empathy. Empathy is not without tradeoffs, and I like to believe you know this but didn't express this idea.
I could go on, but I'll leave these last thoughts. Mormonism is based on feelings" the burning of the bosom" "your heart to swell if these things are true". As may have experienced, feelings are unreliable and don't predict truth. While you have decoupled from Mormon doctrine it appears you can't leave the main narrative in Mormonism, of feelings express show you the truth. You have simply replaced the Mormon "feelings" with Christ's "feeling" or what you believe to be Christ teaching. We know very little about Christ. What we do know about Christ has been filtered through the lens of time and another's perspectives. Feeling is part of the human experience, and we should embrace the human experience, but feelings are not a source of truth or a guiding principle. If so, you would have never decoupled from Mormonism.
I'm curious, how to you reconcile the millions of lives lost through abortion, which at the center of the Democratic Party platform. You seem to imply Trump, and his followers don't care about human life. Did you forget about the genocide by abortion facilitated by the Democrats? For the record, I'm not a fan of Trump. In fact, I can't stand they guy. I don't believe he is Christian, and I have never believed Governments or politicians are moral. It is a false premise to think otherwise.
Every word of this episode was 🔥. I’ve already listened to it twice this morning. Thank you, thank you, thank you for making me feel less alone in “backwards world”.
It might be - much of it probably is. But - and this is my experience, as one who takes a largely academic approach to source and meaning, and who doesn't waste time on CFM - the things in it that I find inspirational don't need to be historical, and the things that I reject aren't always the fictional parts. Humanity's wrestle with God in the aggregate is as messy as mine is on a personal level.
I’m coming to a place in my life where I’m realizing that claims of literal biblical truth hold far less transformative weight for me than the universal human truths I see in biblical stories (even if they’re fiction): love, fear, control, in-groups and out-groups and how we manage those, where is God when we suffer, etc. People have been grappling with these concepts and questions for thousands of years, and reading these stories makes my own human struggle feel more connected with humanity and, as a result, God.
Thank you for your perspective. I agree with you that it does hold human truths that I believe in. There are a lot of works of fiction that hold truths in it and are in a story form that makes it more interesting to read and more compelling to live. I’m getting to a point in my processing where I can take what feels right and leave the rest unless I find new information that will change the perspective.
I loved this episode. Thank you so much. I’ve been listening to you both for years, and I feel like I get to take my friends with me while I listen to your podcast on my walks. I’m so grateful for your mentioning of the genocide in Gaza, and wondering why our church hasn’t done anything in this regards. This devastation and our complicity in it, has been a tipping point for me in my faith.
I listened to this one yesterday. It was great. I just wondered if anyone had ever pointed out (surely it's come up before) that is common in neuro divergent relational communication styles to use shared experiences to relate and literally demonstrate our empathy. It's not perceived the same way by the neuro typical understanding so it's assumed that were trying to make it about ourselves. But the opposite is happening. We show which parts we understand and which we don't through our closest related connecting path of empathy. I wish more people understood that.
I was sad to hear Susan has been convinced her way of empathizing was being selfish. Not being able to explain why we do what we do leaves us vulnerable to others imposing their own imagined motives.
Thanks for the podcast and respectfully, I believe you have either deliberately or unknowingly added more confusion, not less confusion to the topic of empathy.
I'll break my comments down to section for ease.
Empathy vs Sympathy: You broached the subject but never really articulated the differences between empathy and sympathy. Having the human experience doesn't qualify you to "feel" empathy for everyone. A few years ago, I attended the Transplant games of America. As the name suggests this is an Olympic style competition for those who have either donated organs or have received organs. It was very clear from the moment I started watching the competition those who received transplants had a special bond with each other. An unspoken bond with each other that was in the ease of their conversations. They all knew the difficult transplant path and understood the boulders and waterfalls along the way. In my view this is the essence empathy. Those who watched or conversed with the athletes could visualize the road but acknowledged they didn't know the path. Listening to your podcast I don't think this was communicated very well. There is a reason why English and may other languages use different words to communicate what is means to understand.
Empathy is a Sin: You started the podcast referencing the sermon by Rev. Mariann Budde. Like the article you referenced to tee up this topic you conflated mercy for empathy. Rev. Budde was asking Trump to extend mercy, not empathy. Mercy has to do with forgiveness, not understanding, and they are not mutually exclusive. In addition, the title of book you didn't want to reference was deliberate and was not suggesting empathy was a sin, rather, like most author's, they select titles to catch the reader's attention, it worked. If you bothered to actually read more about what he was suggesting, you may have found yourself in cognitive dissonance. The premise of his argument is related to untethered empathy being used as a manipulative tool at the expense of suffering. For example, you mention illegal immigration and your desire to live and let live regardless of the laws. There are two problems with this form of empathy, sympathy. First, where is the line when it comes to what laws should be enforce and those that shouldn't? Are you okay if we stop enforcing murder, rape, and domestic violence? If no, then where is the line? Rather than saying is the law more important than the people? You should direct your energy to your local representatives. Which brings me to my second point. You have deep sympathy for those who came to the US illegally. While I appreciate this viewpoint, you have to ask yourself what is the direct ion of this sympathy? You said stories move people; facts don't. In that spirit here is a story for you. Ava Moore was admitted to the Air Force academy. She wanted to join the small group of women who have made the rank of General. This was her life goal. This year she returned to her home state after school was over to enjoy a few weeks of relaxation. While enjoying herself at the lake, she was hit by a jet ski and killed. Those responsible for her killing quickly left the scene of the accident and in doing so caused even more damage to other bystanders. The responsible parties were illegal aliens from Venezuela. Prior to the accident, both of these individual's seemed to be enjoying their time in the US. Other than breaking the US immigration laws, they didn't have any legal issues. These illegal immigrants are the very same people you seem to garner a lot of your heart. Ava wanted to serve and protect her Country, but her Country didn't protect her. So, I ask you, why doesn't your sympathy extend to Ava? You action, on the surface seem to align with the very definition of untethered empathy. Your sympathy seems very one sided. But perhaps I misunderstood you? I also notice you did the same thing with the war in Gaza. Your heart breaks for the children, but what about the thousands of Jews tortured, raped and killed by Hamas? Hamas is responsible for both atrocities, but you only extend sympathy one way. This is untethered empathy. Empathy is not without tradeoffs, and I like to believe you know this but didn't express this idea.
I could go on, but I'll leave these last thoughts. Mormonism is based on feelings" the burning of the bosom" "your heart to swell if these things are true". As may have experienced, feelings are unreliable and don't predict truth. While you have decoupled from Mormon doctrine it appears you can't leave the main narrative in Mormonism, of feelings express show you the truth. You have simply replaced the Mormon "feelings" with Christ's "feeling" or what you believe to be Christ teaching. We know very little about Christ. What we do know about Christ has been filtered through the lens of time and another's perspectives. Feeling is part of the human experience, and we should embrace the human experience, but feelings are not a source of truth or a guiding principle. If so, you would have never decoupled from Mormonism.
I'm curious, how to you reconcile the millions of lives lost through abortion, which at the center of the Democratic Party platform. You seem to imply Trump, and his followers don't care about human life. Did you forget about the genocide by abortion facilitated by the Democrats? For the record, I'm not a fan of Trump. In fact, I can't stand they guy. I don't believe he is Christian, and I have never believed Governments or politicians are moral. It is a false premise to think otherwise.
Every word of this episode was 🔥. I’ve already listened to it twice this morning. Thank you, thank you, thank you for making me feel less alone in “backwards world”.
May backwards world end soon!
And what if the Bible itself is a work of fiction?
It might be - much of it probably is. But - and this is my experience, as one who takes a largely academic approach to source and meaning, and who doesn't waste time on CFM - the things in it that I find inspirational don't need to be historical, and the things that I reject aren't always the fictional parts. Humanity's wrestle with God in the aggregate is as messy as mine is on a personal level.
Plenty of fiction inspires and moves me.
as Richard Rohr says, "Literalism is invariably the lowest and least level of meaning".
I’m coming to a place in my life where I’m realizing that claims of literal biblical truth hold far less transformative weight for me than the universal human truths I see in biblical stories (even if they’re fiction): love, fear, control, in-groups and out-groups and how we manage those, where is God when we suffer, etc. People have been grappling with these concepts and questions for thousands of years, and reading these stories makes my own human struggle feel more connected with humanity and, as a result, God.
Thank you for your perspective. I agree with you that it does hold human truths that I believe in. There are a lot of works of fiction that hold truths in it and are in a story form that makes it more interesting to read and more compelling to live. I’m getting to a point in my processing where I can take what feels right and leave the rest unless I find new information that will change the perspective.