Thank you for this post! I've long felt that LDS church services were boring, repetitive, superficial and yes, juvenile. They don’t feed me at all any more and I have to find my spiritual nourishment elsewhere (like your wonderful podcast!)
I found this to be a thought provoking article as our primary is often full of the nuanced adults, like myself. I know that people regularly retreat to primary when the conversations among the adults become exclusionary in their efforts to think deeper. Sometimes those anemic basics are the safer places. But this made me introspective. Why is it that I welcome deep conversations outside of church but avoid them within those brick walls? I think there may be some religious trauma involved in that.
I raise my hand to the square on this one. I believe that one of the reasons for many leaving is a lack of deeper thought on spiritual matters, and the often not so subtle push-back if deeper thought is offered in lessons. As I was struggling with staying, I often prayed before Sunday meetings, "please help me find something hopeful today, something that brings me peace, something that offers me a new perspective, something meaningful in the meeting". So often that was not the case.
Yes!! Thank you for saying these things out loud! I, for one, really agree with your sentiments about your human challenges needing deeper thoughts and ideas than the primary answers. Me too!!!! I thought something was wrong with me when the primary answers weren’t working. But now I have stopped thinking I’m broken and start questioning the solutions I’ve been offered and look for solutions and answers that seem to work better for me. And this corn recipe looks amazing. I’m making today for sure!!! 🤤
I also loved your comments, Cynthia. Thanks for putting it into words for me - I don't feel like I'm getting anything of substance out of church. I feel like I'm in primary with my 7 and 3 year olds. I've been dealing with brain fog from long Covid for 3 years now so on top on top of trying to comprehend was speakers are trying to convey, if I realize that the topic is juvenile, I just completely tune out because it takes too much mental energy to try and listen and actually absorb something so why should I waste my precious spoons and energy if they're speaking to me like I'm a child? Not a 33 year old woman with a bachelor's degree in biology. 🙄
Cynthia, I love this post abt the juvenilization of adults at church. I see the same trend. At a recent stake conference, the congregation sang Nephi's Courage. I cringed and didn't sing. There was an emphasis on seeming unconditional obedience to Church leaders and teachings in the talks. This does not support adult development. When people get too independent or intellectual at church, I notice certain leaders reeling conversations in, doing things like quoting that recentish talk abt. how there is no room for activism and advocacy at church. Resisting this and helping others resist this is so important.
I forgot to say how much I love how you pull in The Book of Mormon musical here. In "I believe" the character sings, "You cannot just believe part way. You have to believe in it all. My problem was doubting the Lord's will...I can't allow myself to have any doubt." This poor missionary character is having a faith crisis and is hell bent on forcing himself to believe and continuing his all or nothing thinking. It seems this is all that has been modeled to him by older adults. I loved Mark Wrathall's recent Wayfare piece about how faith is not belief or anything you do with your mind. It's an experiment with states of being and relationships: https://www.wayfaremagazine.org/p/tasting-the-light
Thank you for this post! I've long felt that LDS church services were boring, repetitive, superficial and yes, juvenile. They don’t feed me at all any more and I have to find my spiritual nourishment elsewhere (like your wonderful podcast!)
I found this to be a thought provoking article as our primary is often full of the nuanced adults, like myself. I know that people regularly retreat to primary when the conversations among the adults become exclusionary in their efforts to think deeper. Sometimes those anemic basics are the safer places. But this made me introspective. Why is it that I welcome deep conversations outside of church but avoid them within those brick walls? I think there may be some religious trauma involved in that.
I raise my hand to the square on this one. I believe that one of the reasons for many leaving is a lack of deeper thought on spiritual matters, and the often not so subtle push-back if deeper thought is offered in lessons. As I was struggling with staying, I often prayed before Sunday meetings, "please help me find something hopeful today, something that brings me peace, something that offers me a new perspective, something meaningful in the meeting". So often that was not the case.
Yes!! Thank you for saying these things out loud! I, for one, really agree with your sentiments about your human challenges needing deeper thoughts and ideas than the primary answers. Me too!!!! I thought something was wrong with me when the primary answers weren’t working. But now I have stopped thinking I’m broken and start questioning the solutions I’ve been offered and look for solutions and answers that seem to work better for me. And this corn recipe looks amazing. I’m making today for sure!!! 🤤
I also loved your comments, Cynthia. Thanks for putting it into words for me - I don't feel like I'm getting anything of substance out of church. I feel like I'm in primary with my 7 and 3 year olds. I've been dealing with brain fog from long Covid for 3 years now so on top on top of trying to comprehend was speakers are trying to convey, if I realize that the topic is juvenile, I just completely tune out because it takes too much mental energy to try and listen and actually absorb something so why should I waste my precious spoons and energy if they're speaking to me like I'm a child? Not a 33 year old woman with a bachelor's degree in biology. 🙄
It's so hard sometimes, Rachel! And dang I am so sorry about long Covid! ~C
Adults needing adulting things….imagine that! 😉 Amen, amen, and amen.
I've earned this grown up label. dangit! ~C
Cynthia, I love this post abt the juvenilization of adults at church. I see the same trend. At a recent stake conference, the congregation sang Nephi's Courage. I cringed and didn't sing. There was an emphasis on seeming unconditional obedience to Church leaders and teachings in the talks. This does not support adult development. When people get too independent or intellectual at church, I notice certain leaders reeling conversations in, doing things like quoting that recentish talk abt. how there is no room for activism and advocacy at church. Resisting this and helping others resist this is so important.
Holy smokes! They sang that song? And entire room full of adults? Bah!
I forgot to say how much I love how you pull in The Book of Mormon musical here. In "I believe" the character sings, "You cannot just believe part way. You have to believe in it all. My problem was doubting the Lord's will...I can't allow myself to have any doubt." This poor missionary character is having a faith crisis and is hell bent on forcing himself to believe and continuing his all or nothing thinking. It seems this is all that has been modeled to him by older adults. I loved Mark Wrathall's recent Wayfare piece about how faith is not belief or anything you do with your mind. It's an experiment with states of being and relationships: https://www.wayfaremagazine.org/p/tasting-the-light