Bringing attention to issues affecting Latter-day Saint women requires us to be opportunistic about using our voices. Even those in leadership callings don’t always find their ideas and opinions are welcome. And when chances to be heard do arise, the power dynamic of our culture and organization may make it hard for a woman to find the courage to express a non-traditional view. In Episode 138, Cynthia and Susan are joined by Afton Southam Parker, a woman who knows how to speak up about things that matter to her. It’s a conversation about finding ways to make individual opinions, ideas, and experiences known in a church where sharing them is rarely encouraged.
In bonus Episode 139, Afton shares about her meeting with some of the people responsible for garment design. She came prepared with a 34 slide PowerPoint presentation, based on her own experiences and those of many other women who wear them. It’s a masterclass on many of the communication tips she talks about in Episode 138. Don’t miss this follow-up conversation with Cynthia and Susan to review her presentation, and break it all down!
Notes & Quotes:
Among Mormon Women, Frank Talk About Sacred Underclothes, by Ruth Graham, The New York Times, 7/21/2021
When Women Don’t Speak, by Brittany Karford Rogers, BYU Magazine, Spring 2020
“A Mother There”: A Survey of Historical Teachings about Mother in Heaven, by David L. Pausen & Martin Pulido, BYU Studies
The Female Brain, by Louann Brizendine
Of Boys and Men: Why the Modern Male Is Struggling, Why It Matters, and What to Do About It, by Richard V. Reeves
Afton’s tips for speaking up at church:
Think of it as providing exposure and awareness
Seek opportunities
Speak with your voice, share your concerns
Write letters (can be anonymous—send them to SLC or hand to visiting/local authorities)
Vote with your feet—if you don’t agree, don’t do it
Offer solutions when bringing up challenges
Give grace
Get close (it’s hard to hate up close)
Remember that everyone at church has years of conditioning that has developed them into who they are
Wendy Collmar
Hi Cynthia and Susan, I just listened to the Garment podcast and I wanted to share that I received one of those surveys about Garments. I was so excited to be heard. I explained that I live in hot Texas. I dress modestly and because I’m under 5 ft tall, even the petite size still hang below my long shorts. My inactive husband HATED them. I hid in the closet to change my clothes, he shamed me. I resent not being able to buy modest clothes (a blouse or dress with sleeves but sheer) because the sleeves of the Garment still show. And I’m 71! Not a hot chickie with a great body I want to “show off” which I believe the men are worried about. I also explained that I thought they would be more meaningful if they were worn only during Temple attendance. Guess what? I didn’t hear one word back from them. Disappointing and not seen/heard. Wearing underwear to determine one’s worthiness is just weird if you think about it. The older I get, the more I’m agreeing with “it’s men’s control over our bodies.” Yikes! I just had a picture of a Burkah in my head.
Thank you for listening to me! You have my permission to read this if you choose.
Wendy
acw
This episode on garments was so so good. And also so difficult to hear that those in charge still don’t know/care about the issues. Thanks for bringing this to light and let us know if there’s more we can do to raise awareness for Afton’s work.
Kristi
It would be great if we only wore the garments when we went to the temple. My husband has left the church and it’s been hard for me to be wearing garments in front of him.
Kellie Openshaw
This episode was my first introduction to this podcast and I loved it. I decided to quit wearing mine 2 years ago and have never regretted the decision. I only wish I had done it sooner. The impact they have on your self esteem, intimate relationships and your body image are not worth it and 20+ years later still have an impact. As mentioned in the comment above, wear them to the temple – awesome. Stay out of my undies drawer other than that.
Haven’t renewed my temple recommend b/c although I know I would be welcomed by the Lord, the men in charge wouldn’t think so. I dont need them asking about my choice of undies (Creepy) and I don’t want to lie.
Trying to figure out what to do as my kids get older. Tough to navigate.
May
I really appreciate this podcast on garments and the trouble we females go through with them. I wish somebody would listen! I was endowed 23 years ago and I can honestly say I have hated every singled moment I’ve had to be in garments. There are so many physical reasons, but the very most important reason to me is I feel my clothing choices are being controlled and I am not having it anymore. I won’t wear them and thus, I don’t have a temple recommend anymore. In 2020 it came to a head for me, I decided I wasn’t going spend one more summer hot and in long shorts that basically feel like I’m still wearing pants! I’m tired of being controlled in my clothing so that men can enforce modesty on me. I love the gospel, I love the savior, I love love love it. But I don’t see how my spirituality is tied to my underwear. I wish somebody would listen and release us from this burden.
Megan Buhler
Could we get a peek at the powerpoint presentation Afton presented on garments? Also, if anyone is interested in providing input, there are focus groups right now in Riverton, UT Atlanta, Georgia and LA, California about garments… they are specifically looking for women with design experience to participate… but I put a little based on the clothing I’ve sewn (just a couple of times, but that is a little, right?). I don’t know if I’ll get in, but I’d love a chance to provide input. https://research.churchofjesuschrist.org/jfe/form/SV_0cTAbnTFIszAoZg
Jenny
Fig leaves are notorious for allergies causing rashes and itching, they even contain latex that many are allergic to. It’s worthwhile to consider who told Adam and Eve to wear fig leaves. He was tricking them in a way that would intentially be oppressive. So the origin of a garment to cover one’s nakedness was discomfort and shame.
Annie Oswald
SO many questions I have asked. So many ideas I’ve had. I will speak up. Thank you for clarifying my thoughts and giving me the language to use as I speak up.
Maggie Harper
Listening to talk about layers.. one Sunday I had underwear and a pad, a garment bottom, pantyhose (I’m super white so I don’t feel comfortable with a bare leg) a slip and a skirt. I didn’t actually make it to church that day because I had a sensory meltdown. Sometimes garments are just too much.
Janae
Thank you for this episode!! I get so angry about these garments being made and designed by men!! It’s so sad how little women are heard in the church! I hope we can get the church to hear us.
Aria
Thanks so much for sharing this. I didn’t always struggle with garments, but as I’ve gotten older and started navigating Perimenopause, it’s suddenly become a huge issue for me. It’s consuming many of my thoughts and making my anxiety so bad. I experience so much discomfort both physically and mentally because of my garments right now. My sensory issues have become more pronounced. Hot flashes are made worse from extra layers. They make me feel extremely unattractive. It’s causing me so many negative feelings. Last year I had to see a dermatologist because I got some kind of fungal rash that I’m sure was probably from lack of air flow and the sweat caused by the fabrics clinging to me. It’s so hard to deal with menstruation with garments. And then that has gotten worse with Perimenopause because of more irregular bleeding that sometimes can’t be planned for.
I just so badly want to do the right thing, but I don’t know how when I am so uncomfortable. I just want to cry when I think about it. I feel so
fearful about doing the wrong thing. And it really disturbs me that my eternal salvation could hinge on this choice. My underwear!?
Is my mental and physical discomfort something the Lord requires? I feel like he doesn’t want me to suffer. But, maybe he does? I mean, this is nothing compared to the suffering my pioneer ancestors experienced, right?
I wonder if I should talk to my bishop, but I just can’t fathom going in to talk to a man, who is not my doctor or my husband about my underwear and how that relates to my hormonal and gynecological health. It’s so weird and creepy that I even have to think about that. And the fact that I even am having to think about it hurts my testimony and makes me feel like I’m not faithful.
I’m really struggling.
I appreciate that there are other women who have shared their experience, so at least I know I’m not alone and that I’m just loosing my mind.
Lena
I’m in the older bracket of Gen-x and we were taught by the matrons that nothing was to come between the garments and the skin except a pad. Due to that teaching and decades of wearing it over the garment, I still can’t quite adapt to wearing the garment over a bra. The problem is that unless I choose a sport-style bra (which I don’t like under daily wear), there is no bra I’ve tried in 35 years that doesn’t slip off the shoulder due to the garment. I used to work at Beehive sewing garments, so yes, I’ve seen and worn all the fabrics. Why must the garment even have a sleeve? We can govern ourselves to be modest. If the garment were more of a camisole style with a narrower strap, it could ride on the shoulders next to the bra strap and resolve the bra slippage issue.