In recent years, it seems the phrases priesthood power and priesthood authority are being used more often in reference to women. But what do those words really mean? Has anything changed, or is this just a new way of describing old ideas? Cynthia and Susan talk about these phrases and the questions and feelings they evoke in a discussion of Pres. Jean B. Bingham’s article, Women and Covenant Power.
Notes:
Women and Covenant Power, by Pres. Jean B. Bingham
Men and Women and Priesthood Power, by M. Russell Ballard
The Keys and Authority of the Priesthood, by Dallin H. Oaks
Joseph Smith’s Teachings about Priesthood, Temple, and Women
Image by Quentin Spencer
Sister-With-An-Opinion
Great show! Needs to be spoken about. These were my thoughts/questions (apologies for the length):
(1) “Bishopric roulette” is a thing! Just before the pandemic, I was surprised to see a member of our Bishopric started referring to our Relief Society President in Sacrament meeting as “President (last name)”, and also referred to a Deacon Quorum’s President as “President (last name).” It started a new precedent in our ward that I felt was going in the right direction.
(2) I too would like to understand the difference between Priesthood Power and promptings from the Holy Ghost, because in speaking over the years to my non-members friends, I can see that they also receive promptings and insights for their lives and their children’s lives. I would LOVE to know the difference.
(3) Re: Priesthood vs. Motherhood…I never became a mother, so when this older rhetoric was prevalent, I often thought “where does this leave me?” I often still wonder.
(4) Maybe 92% of LDS women are “not actively seeking ordination” because of the same experience as me. Based on comments by brothers over the years, I saw that certain genres of remarks were viewed as “feminist” and looked down on. I have censored my thoughts so many times since then that it is not even funny, in order to avoid unfavorable assumptions and gossip. Even sisters sometimes do the work of sexism by shaming other women who have questions. (5) For LDS women who are aware of who Kate Kelly is, what message does her excommunication send to us?
(6) I have never felt like I wanted to be ordained, but I have often felt that I wanted to be heard. Not heard has happened enough that I am very aware of it. There should be a better feedback loop than there is currently. A perfect God can make perfect decisions with all information. As for the rest of us humans, including leaders, the only way to understand one another is by expressing and listening to others’ thoughts and feelings.
(7) It is indeed confusing to now have the brethren teaching that women have priesthood authority when that was not at all the messaging prior to the 2010’s. The fact that it is in an “it was always like that” sort of way IS very gas-lighty, as Susan said.
(8) I’m wondering if the guy Cynthia mentioned who was pounding the pulpit and saying something he was not authorized to say, was hauled into the Bishop’s office and ‘instructed’? If not, then that shows the real problem with men/women at church – not ordination; but unequal treatment.
God bless, sisters!
CheekyKirsten
I am a little late to the party and I’m marathoning through all the old episodes. I wanted to say that I appreciated you comment and I was able to read through all the talks listed. As someone dealing with infertility, as a convert to the Church, I feel like I might have been too sensitive to some of the things I was seeing, but it seems I am not alone – hallelujah!
There are several portions of these talks that seem to suggest that this something that will never change, but even Elder Oaks said that we don’t know why the Church is structured this way. It would seem to me that if the Church is living, we should be open to shifts, but if the men at top aren’t seeking inspiration on this topic, who knows when we’re going to get it.
Lastly, the clear delineations of gender in the Church can be harmful – and separate but equal doesn’t even hold Supreme Court standard – but I have personally seen insightful, powerful, faithful women diminishing themselves when called to leadership roles. Whether this is a self-confidence issue (which I believe stems from our emphasis on leadership being a male-trait) or an attempt to defer to the men in the room (i.e. making ourselves smaller and therefore less likely to be dismissed out of hand), we have a big problem. It is stressed that all members, male and female are unique and each has different, valuable gifts, but why does the recognition of these gifts fall along gender lines?
Anyway, long comment to a long comment, but I love these episodes and I love that women are voicing the questions I’ve long held in my head. THANK YOU!
Annie
Your #3 resonates with me!! I’ve heard the priesthood/motherhood so many times.. gah!!! The corollary to motherhood is not priesthood.. it’s fatherhood!! Seems obvious to me and *should* go without saying, but clearly it needs saying. The thing is, priesthood/motherhood is the party line, the pat answer that is given every time someone asks that question. And I completely agree that it deserves further investigation and prayer.
Andrea Fronk
I’d like to read Barbara Gardner’s Priesthood of Women, after watching her share her ideas online. What do you think of her ideas here about priesthood power being different when familial vs. Structural.
Camilla Dunn
First, I want to say thank you for this podcast, I’m going through the episodes as quickly as I can and absorbing everything you say.
I was wondering if you could drop the name of the artwork you were describing where women were blessing women. Thank you!