Episode 204 (Transcript): Do I Have to Care? | The Second Coming

Episode Transcript

Many thanks to listener, Zinah Burke for her work in transcribing this episode!

This episode can be found on any podcast app, or can be listened to here on our website as well. All the notes and resources we cited in the episode are found at this link as well:

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CW: Hi, I'm Cynthia Winward.

SH: And I'm Susan Hinckley.

CW: And this is At Last She Said It. We are women of faith discussing complicated things, and the title of this week's episode is, “Do I Have to Care? The Second Coming”. Susan, why don't you–,

SH: I'm going to take either credit or blame Cynthia for that title.

CW: I was just going to say, Susan, can you explain the, “do I have to care?” Cause that was your stroke of genius.

SH: Well, I mean, call it genius or call it I'm really trouble, but either way it's what I thought of when I thought about doing an episode about the Second Coming. Not that I didn't care about doing an episode about it. We have a few franchises as part of this podcast, right?

We have, “Does that scripture mean what you think it means?” We have, “We don't believe our own stuff.” And so the other day I was thinking about approaching this topic and thinking, we just need a new franchise, Cynthia. And I think it's going to be, “Do I have to care?” Because there is only so much bandwidth in anyone's life, right?

I mean, there are only so many clucks to give and I feel like mine are already allocated on so many things right no, that there are just some things when I sit down to make the choice about what I'm gonna care about, what's gonna matter to me, where I'm gonna focus my energy, attention, and angst also, right? Where I'm gonna focus those things. There are just some things I have to let slide. So I think it's a really useful exercise for me to pick up church things one at a time and then stop and give myself permission to consider whether they make my personal short list or not.

CW: Yeah. I think it's a funny question. Do I have to care? A little snarky, but I actually think it's a really serious question. Just kind of based on what you're saying right now. We all have only so much bandwidth and we get to decide. I mean, we could call it, “Do I have to care? A guide to being a cafeteria Mormon.” Like, we could add something like that, because -

SH: You know what? I'm going to just say “A guide to being a Mormon” really, because I feel like everybody does this in some ways. It's just some of us do it consciously or intentionally. That's a better word. Some of us do it with intention and some of us just do it because that's part of surviving life.

You have to do it. But I guess the question behind the question, I mean, yeah, it's kind of flip to say, “do I have to care?” But the question behind it is not flip. And that is when I consider this idea, this principle, this question, is it weight bearing? In my life.

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CW: I love that question.

SH: I love that question too. Love it. Love it. Love it. And I feel like it's so useful when we approach a big topic like the Second Coming. Is the whole idea of the Second Coming weight bearing in my life? Great question. So let's approach it from that angle. I've heard people all my life at church expressing their hope that Jesus will come again soon. Right? As if it's an inspiring idea for them or a motivating idea for them. And I've never understood the enthusiasm that I hear people have for that idea. Because like for one thing, for me as a kid, I was terrified. These conversations were about scary things that were going to happen, the signs of the times.

And I couldn't see why anyone would want to run toward that kind of event. But then, as anyone who listens to this podcast knows, I was used to church and fear having a pretty strong correlation. Church ideas often came to me cloaked in fear rather than in hope.

And there have always been members, in my opinion, who prefer taking what I call a dim view. And I think that for some people, if there isn't some vague fear or threat in it somewhere then they think they're not doing religion right.

CW: Yeah. The carrot dangling.

SH: Like they think religion is supposed to be hard. Yes. Yes.

CW: Yeah.

SH: So, I don't have to understand that view. I'm used to being around it my whole life. I think it's just a sort of different kind of orientation to ideas than I have. I don't have to understand it to make space for it. Happy to put that right at the beginning of this conversation. Fair enough.

CW: Nice.

SH: Why are we talking about the Second Coming today?

CW: Well, because everybody's talking about it right now.

SH: Correct.That’s why.

CW: Have you been to church lately, Susan? Because I was just there Sunday.

SH: Same.

CW: Hearing several testimonies about it.

SH: I heard quotes right from the reason that we're going to talk about it. And it is, of course, President Nelson's October general conference talk, titled, The Lord Jesus Christ Will Come Again. I mean, that's pretty cut and dry right there.

CW: It’s right there in the title!

SH: And then under the title, if you look it up on the church website, under the title, there's that sort of summary heading, of the talk. And that says this: “Now is the time for you and for me to prepare for the Second Coming of our Lord and Savior, Jesus the Christ.” So he's making it very plain.

CW: It's very explicit.

SH: Yeah. And then he goes on to reference Christ's return roughly 10 times, depending on how you count throughout the rest of the talk.

CW: It's definitely making a big splash right now. Like I said I was… More on that, we're going to get into nitty gritty, but yeah, it's kind of all the buzz. I've been seeing people repost it on social media. I mean, confession time, I don't watch General Conference live anymore. And the other day as I'm making dinner in the kitchen, I was like, Oh yeah, I remember someone had posted that talk and bore their testimony of it on Facebook. And so I just clicked on this, my friend's Facebook post and listened to it while I was like peeling carrots the other night. And so it's everywhere. It's on social media. It's in our Sacrament Meetings. People in our Substack chats -

SH: I think there was a newspaper headline, if I recall correctly, like right around General Conference. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

CW: Right? Relief Society lessons now are, for the next year coming out and people are going to be discussing that. So it's kind of everywhere.

SH: In other words, we got forced into having this conversation, Cynthia.

CW: Yes, we did. Well, I mean after four and a half years of doing this podcast-

SH: Yeah, about time we got around to it. I guess.

CW: It was about time, but I think every other time it's come up before we were like, “Boring!”

SH: Yep. Yep. Not doing it. Well, here we are. We're gonna do it today. So, thanks for everyone who shows up to have the conversation with us.

The thing that President Nelson does to kick off this talk is he announces the building of 17 new temples. So he's drawing a really clear correlation between the Second Coming and his personal emphasis on temples. I feel like that's been one of his main things as a prophet. And here's what he says. Let's just read it in his own words.

He says, “Why are we building temples at such an unprecedented pace? Why? Because the Lord has instructed us to do so. The blessings of the temple help to gather Israel on both sides of the veil. These blessings also help to prepare a people who will help prepare the world for the Second Coming of the Lord!” Exclamation point! So why, then?

Like, what do you take from that? What's the why?

CW: I'm probably not the person to ask because - I'm going to put away my snarky hat, okay, and I'm going to try and be serious about this, but I really believe President Nelson is very very genuine and really really believes that the two are inextricably linked: The Second Coming and this massive building of temples. And you know what, if I were a hundred years old, I would probably be looking back on the arc of my life too. And kind of looking forward to the next phase. And he probably won't be here much longer. I mean, I don't know that, but he is a hundred.

And so maybe he's getting a bit - the word isn't sentimental but in a way, maybe. Just kind of thinking, well, this is what we're supposed to be doing as Latter-day Saints. It's baked into the name of our church, Susan. It's the last days.

SH: The last days.

CW: So I think that plays a big part in fulfilling our mission of being in the last days.

And for him - and he is the president, not you, not me. And the way he sees it is temples inextricably linked to Jesus’ literal coming again.

SH: Okay. Like there need to be a certain number in the world?

CW: I don't know. I told you I was putting my snarky hat away, Susan.

SH: No, I'm not asking you to snark. I'm like, I'm genuinely curious. Like, I think a lot of people think of this as we need to do all the work for everyone who's ever lived on this earth. So, we need lots of temples to be able to do that. I think there's that line of thought that goes on. It's interesting to me that in this quote I just read, President Nelson sees the temple as helping to prepare a people who will help prepare the world.

So, I guess in his mind, being in the temple is important to being the kind of people that the world is going to need to usher in the Second Coming. Is that what he's saying?

CW: I think that’s fair. I think that is what he's saying. Yeah. That we need to be prepared and be in the temple more. I mean, and we have heard him give many many talks about that.

And he offers many many promises to people who spend more time in the temple. So I believe this is very genuine. And I believe he believes this is the way to do it, and he's in charge, so this is how it's going down.

SH: Well, it explains a lot to me about why it has felt sort of, increasingly for me in the past few years, that everything is about the temple at church.

CW: Everything.

SH: Because I think when President Nelson boils it down, which is what we're seeing. We’re seeing the boiled down version in this talk, I feel like, and it's about the temple for him.

CW: Do you remember our conversation that we had a few months ago, our episode with Candace Wendt about community versus covenants and her take and what we talked about in that episode was that we feel like we have traded community for covenants in the temple.

There's no time right? You've boiled it all down and what's left is time in the temple. That's how it feels to so many of us anyway.

SH: I think president Nelson thinks that's the right trade to be making.

CW: Well, I think so, or else he wouldn't be doing it. Yeah.

SH: Yeah.

CW: Yeah, it's fascinating.

SH: The rest of the talk really just generally encourages members to rededicate themselves to Jesus Christ.

He says, “My dear brothers and sisters, in a coming day, Jesus Christ will return to the earth as the millennial Messiah. So today I call upon you to rededicate your lives to Jesus Christ.”

So really, aside from saying it 10 times that Christ is coming - in one way or another he says it - there isn't that much else in there about the Second Coming.

So my question is, why is that the thing from this talk that everybody has seized upon?