Some questions need to be revisited often so we don’t lose sight of the fact that no satisfactory answer has been given. In Episode 91, Cynthia asked, “If history shows that patriarchy is bad for women, and data shows that girls and women fare better when they can see themselves at every level of leadership in our churches, schools, and societies…why do LDS women and men continue to cling to old ideas that deny history and data?” Unfortunately, her question stands, as little if any progress has been made. In Episode 168 we preface a rerun of this previous conversation with a few of the thoughts we have about it now.

Notes & Quotes:
The Making of Biblical Womanhood: How the Subjugation of Women Became Gospel Truth, by Beth Allison Barr
It’s Good For Girls to Have Clergywomen, Study Shows, by Jana Riess, Religion News Service, July 2018
Your Divine Nature and Eternal Destiny, by Elder Dale G. Renlund, April 2022
Kate Bowler on Facebook

“Instead of being a point of pride for Christians, shouldn’t the historical continuity of a practice that has caused women to fare much worse than men for thousands of years cause concern? Shouldn’t Christians, who are called to be different from the world, treat women differently? What if patriarchy isn’t divinely ordained but is a result of human sin?” —Beth Allison Barr

“Research has determined ‘that having women clergy makes a significant impact on the lives of girls. Girls who had direct examples of clergywomen in childhood grow up with higher self-esteem, better employment, and more education than girls who did not.’” —Jana Riess

A Blessing, by Kate Bowler

The feeder is empty again
and no one is claiming that the birds are greedy
for taking what they pleased.

Look at how the fat, pink flowers
are weighing down the end of each branch,
sucking nutrients into each velvet petal.
How selfish.

Nature hungers, takes and needs.
God, why can’t I?

Blessed are we, learning to take what we need.
Sleeping past our alarms.
Reaching for another helping.
Staying a little longer when the evening is unwinding.

Blessed are we, ignoring the rising anxiety
that our needs are somehow silly
Because we’ve survived this long
without the pleasures of wanting.

God, let these needs be the good sign
of the greening of my life.


“Demanding revelation from God is both arrogant and unproductive. Instead, we wait on the Lord and His timetable to reveal His truths through the means that He has established.” —Elder Dale G. Renlund