There are many touchpoints with consent in a Latter-day Saint woman’s church life. From baptism to temple ordinances to accepting callings, we say yes over and over again, sometimes without ever seriously engaging our options. In Episode 156, Susan and Cynthia unpack consent. There are good reasons a woman might say ‘yes’ even while something inside her is saying ‘no,’ but true consent isn’t coerced by force, threats, pressure, or intimidation. And silence is not consent.
Notes & Quotes:
Elder Bednar on Moral Agency
Gain Spiritual Intelligence, by David A. Bednar, Ricks College, 9/9/1997
The Nothingness of My Mother’s Mothers’ Consent, by Emily Nelson Wadley, Say More: At Last She Writes It, No. 1, 9/2023
Becoming the Person You Were Meant to Be, by Anne Lamott, O, The Oprah Magazine, 11/2009
“I have been frankly puzzled as I have listened to members of the Church say: ‘I have my agency. I don’t have to live the law of tithing or the Word of Wisdom. I don’t have to be chaste.’ I would suggest such individuals do not understand the doctrine of agency. You and I exercise agency in the making of a covenant. When we enter into a covenant with God, we voluntarily surrender a portion of our agency. And the consequences that come from violating the covenant are not within our control. It is not simply a matter of freedom to choose; rather, it is a matter of becoming covenant breakers. Think of the song Choose the Right. It does not say, ‘Choose what you want when you will.’ Agency is linked to a course of choosing the right. That is why we have agency. What did the Father say in the premortal council? ‘And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them’ (Abraham 3:25). Agency is to be used in choosing the right.” — David A. Bednar
“Every single day I try to figure out something I no longer agree to do. You get to change your mind—your parents may have accidentally forgotten to mention this to you.” — Anne Lamott
Taralyn Greene
Thank you for addressing consent. I really enjoyed the topics discussed and do agree with both of your views. Thank for being brave and using your voice to “educate” and bring ideas to ponder for women in the church to consider. I am a 53 yr old “inactive” member who regularly felt shame and disregard when challenging ideas with the “brethren”. It is refreshing to hear other women who can think outside the box like yourselves.
Shauna
I am in the middle the Consent episode- first of all, you are doing an amazing job!!! I have felt all those feelings!!!!! I left the Church about a year ago and I want to put another perspective out there. All of those good questions- why isn’t there informed consent in the temple, why is there so much pressure to get baptized when age 8, so many people witness to these poor brides, an expectation to serve a mission because they were baptized etc. Can all be answered by studying the life of Joseph Smith. The founder of this religion made choices about the construct so that it would be difficult to leave (especially with social and family consequences not to mention the fear of eternal failings). Most times the answers you are looking for are the simplest unless you really want to stay and then you have the free agency to do the mental gymnastics in order to stay. I feel so much peace now that I wasn’t able to feel before. All the things that I loved about the church like high morals, good friends, hope, following Jesus’s example, and charitable love etc. are still the most important things in my life. I know this won’t change anyone’s mind and it shouldn’t. There ARE answers out there, please don’t let the church make you afraid to search for truth. Thank you for your podcast, you are real and thoughtful, the world is a better, Kinder place because of you.
Shannon Starks
This episode on consent is wonderful. There’s nothing like laying it out in stark detail! Even though it may be painful to hear, I actually find joy in fitting the puzzle pieces together of how we came to where we are. It gives me confidence in the personal intuition that led me long ago to reject the idea of women as subordinate. Thanks so much for your work!
~ Ruth
Good morning, Susan and Cynthia.
I’ve been thinking about this episode all week (#156), especially the part about leaders saying “Agency is to be used in choosing the right.” It is true it may be linked to choosing good – *and it is *also true it may linked to choosing not-so-good. I think 2 Nephi 2:27 supports this: “And they are free to choose liberty and eternal life, through the great Mediator of all men, or to choose captivity and death.” People legitimately have the option to choose any way at any point…so do we believe our own stuff or not?
Thank you for stretching my mind and supporting my heart every week.