Got thoughts about tithing? This may be the episode you’ve been waiting for! There’s a lot of emotion tied up at the intersection of money, obedience, temple recommends, and blessings. And what about charitable giving? How is tithing the same as paying to a charity that benefits others? How is tithing different? In Episode 126, Cynthia and Susan explore a diversity of ideas and personal experiences shared by listeners around this complicated topic.
Notes & Quotes:
Cynthia’s social media post about Tithing Declaration
Living on the Inside of the Edge: A Survival Guide, by Christian Kimball
Do I pay tithing on my income before taxes are taken out or on what I receive after taxes?, from the Church website (referencing First Presidency letter 3/19/1970)
Aaron
Fantastic episode. Please, please continue the discussion. I know you don’t want to be prescriptive, but many if not most members don’t know how to pay other than “gross/net paycheck” without arbitrarily lowering the amount, which is accompanied with heavy guilt. We have a lot of ideas that have shaped our calculation and we’d love to hear others’.
Charles Dayton
D. Michael Quinn’s research indicated that the US Church members subsidizes the saints in every other country. Interesting global datapoint.
Alison Gump
Ladies/Sisters!
A girlfriend recommended I check you out, and how timely that Tithing was the topic of the first episode I listened in on just last night. About halfway through I decided to start writing down catch phrases/lightbulb impressions related to positive action, spiritual confirmation, and good things to research, instead of listening for more issues to criticize or feel betrayed about that I hadn’t thought of before. I’m here to increase my knowledge, not my anger, which may mean more “wrestley” feelings for me (love THAT, BTW), but that means strong growth! For me this actually WAS an affirming and faith promoting episode! I received hope, clarity and motivation to start giving again (after several years of holding back) with charitable contributions AND money to financially support the church’s ministry. Not sure how that is going to look yet, but because I believe/want the church to be “true,” as a member I do need to pay something to support the infrastructure/machinations etc. which is different than what charitable donations should be put towards.
You are an answer to prayer for me. I have been on the edge of inside for a while now and many times have thought how helpful it would be to have a space where challenging doctrine & church principles could be discussed in a safe and mature way – which is what you are doing! Thank you! Further, I feel if intention on the part of the promoters/hosts and the participants is to draw nearer to Christ & God, then their Spirit will be with us to discern and amplify for each listener individually, according to the guidance they need to follow their path to Christ. Y’all are awesome! Keep on keeping on!!
Glery Becerra
When church leaders say “we don’t use tithing funds to pay for that”, it sounds to me like: “we don’t use money you gave to the church and hence, you cannot tell us what to do with it or expect any account report about it.” This is a free card for the church administration to do business the members know nothing about (think of recent IRS reports). If the church is its members, then ALL the funds in the church are the members’ funds, consecrated to the church. The church administration also say they have businesses from which they draw money to sustains its various efforts. All those businesses at some point were started by members’ donations, so it all comes from faithful followers. The church has become a corporation, it’s working in the same way the “evil world” they blame so much about works. If God is so powerful and the Earth is His, stop doing business like the world does, stop playing by the rules of the world, instead show us a higher, revealed way to sustain the church. And please, stop lying to the people that the Lord will not do that because “He requires the sacrifice of His people” to teach them. In that case, higher-rank leaders should show by example they do not need six-figure salaries to do the work of the Lord.
The reality is that these arguments can’t be won by rhetorical discussion because the church has devised, for more than a century, every possible answer to these questions. These arguments will be won when all members start getting informed by unbiased studies, archeologic findings and historical research (outside the schools under church control), and by listening to the thousands of testimonies of good people deceived, used and abused by this church. When this happens, the church will fade away like the dews from heaven under the warmth of the sun of truth and knowledge. A small group of loyal followers may survive, it is hard to free oneself from indoctrination started in childhood.
Anonymous
Many years ago when we were young with small babies and less nuance than now, we made an agreement with the bishop to pay tithing first and then take money back from the church in the form of groceries at the bishops storehouse. Fast forward to now and our kids are teenagers, we recently paid out of pocket for a cross country move, bought a house we thought we could afford, then had a period of unemployment. So even now after 20 years of marriage and professional work when we thought we’d finally be “established”, we are now so strapped that we are putting lawn mower gas in the car. There is no increase in our finances, nothing left over, and ten percent of nothing is nothing. I’m hopeful that I can share with our new bishop that we literally can’t pay anything and have him accept that answer, rather than him telling us to pay tithing and then go back to the storehouse. Not asking for a handout, just wanting him to acknowledgement our circumstance and hoping its good enough to renew my temple subscription.